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FLYING EAGLE AND INDIAN CENT COLLECTORS SOCIETY
LONGACRE'S LEDGER
Official Publication of the(cid:1)
The purpose of the Flying Eagle and Indian Cent
FLYING EAGLE AND INDIAN CENT COLLECTORS SOCIETY (cid:1)
Collectors Society is to promote the study and
collection of Longacre's design of small cents.
"'i%ft&twlnt~?t'1i:lf::>:'
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Page
OFFICERS
President's Letter 2
President Richard Snow
Editor's Conunent 3
Secretary Xan Chamberlain
Letters to the Editor 4
Treasurer Charles Jones
Questions and Answers. , 8
Publisher/Editor Larry R. Steve
Announcements , 11
Conunents and Controversy 12
Regional Representatives(cid:1)
Grading Opinion for
Florida Northeast Northwest(cid:1)
Circulated Bronze Indian Cents 15
Bob Misbin Henry Hettger Kenneth Hill(cid:1)
by Larry R. Steve
Alaska Mid-Western(cid:1)
Pricing MS-65 RED Bronze Indian Cents 19
Robert Hall Mark McWherter(cid:1)
by Brian Wagner and Rick Snow
Understanding "Strike Doubling" on
Flying Eagle & Indian Cents 26
r:
by Christopher Pilliod
ON THE COVER
Two Rather Unique Coins - or -
Who Was W.W.? 30
1856 Flying Eagle Cent
by Larry R. Steve
Much has been written about this coin, it is,
1897 With '1' in Neck -
perhaps, the most famous small cent ever minted.
??? Trick Photography??? 34
Although technically considered as a pattern, it is
by Joe Haney
highly coveted by many collectors alike - owning one
becomes a prized possession.
How Many Are There, Anyway? 36
by Douglas W. Hill
(cour~esy Larry S~eve, phoco by Tom Mulvaney)
The F. IND. ERSN Report 39
by Larry R. Steve
Ar~Lcles, opLnions and comrnen~s appearLng in ~his Journal reflec~ the vLews
of their auchor and mayor may not agree wi~h ~hose of the Sociecy.
Advertising Rates/Policy , 44
All righ~s reserved.(cid:1) Classified Ads. , , , .. ,45
No par~ of ~his Journal may be reproduced, in whole or in par~, by any means(cid:1) Membership Application 46
wi~hou ~ prior written permission from ~he Society. '(cid:1)
Additional Information About the Society 47
PRESIDENT'S LETTER
On a personal note, I want to thank everyone for
their response to my "Variety Sale #1" mail bid sale.
Thank you all for renewing If you have not received a copy, please contact me (info
your membership for this year. is on the back cover). The closing date is January 16,
The third year for the Fly-In 1993. If there is still time to bid, please pull the
Club looks like it will be the catalog out again and submit some bids. If you need
best year yet. I appreciate the help determining a proper value for some of the
input from the membership on the varieties, you can call me and I'll try and help.
grading forum that was started
last year by Fly-In member Tom
Crogan. We intend to further
address the grading question in -Rick Snow, Pres ident
the future. One thing we will
work to get accomplished is a
set of "grading plates". This will consist of sets of EDITOR'S COMMENT
high quality photographic pages of all the various
grades of bronze Indian Cents along with concise grading
Along with Rick, I would like to thank all for
standards describing each. These could be distributed
renewing their membership this year. It is encouraging
to the membership at a fixed price that would cover the
to see a high percentage of renewals, and we welcome all
cost. We could then sell additional ones in the future
of our new members. We continue to be one of the
for the benefit of the clubs treasury, This
fastest growing specialty clubs around, and I believe
accomplished, we can then extend the debate and produce
that this is attributed to our focus on the collector
grading plates for the Copper-Nickel Indians and Flying
and the issues that we address.
Eagles.
On this note, I have found that quite a few members
This is an opportunity for the Fly-In Club to
are interested in the'~radingproject that was initiated
become a leader among specialty clubs, While other
by Tom Crogan; some of their thoughts and comments are
clubs argue back and forth and accomplish little, we can
printed within this issue under "Letters to the Editor" .
take a leadership position and show the others how to
In addition, I have presented my opinions on the subject
get things done to help the hobby. Why else are we
in an article entitled "Grading Opinion for Circulated
here?
Bronze Indian Cents",
The article by Brian Wagner and myself in this
Finally, as we begin our third year, we have plans
issue is aimed at creating debate. If you have
for our continued growth and success. Hopefully, later
information that you feel we overlooked, please feel
this year, we will begin to address the issue of
free to let us know. We are most interested in getting
"Relative Rarity" for this series of small cents.
a clear understanding of the true populations of the
varieties 1869/69, 1873 Closed 3, and 1886 T2 in all
Wishing all a joyous holiday season and a
grades above MS63 (certified).
prosperous new year.
- Larry R. Steve, Editor
2 LoNGACRE I S LEDGER JOURNAL OF THE FLYING EAGLE AND INDIAN CENT COLLECTORS SOCIETY 3
J
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR high. Ten (10) noticeable marks is an awful lot.
Congratulations to Richard Snow, Chris Pil1iod, and Finally, judging from the picture, if "about good"
all the contributors to the text Flying Eagles & Indian is that bad, how ..... are you even going to be able to
Cents. identify a "poor" or "filler" coin?
As a collector of early copper for thirty years, I hope these comments have been of some help to all
I think our club is off to a good start in the area of involved or concerned. Keep up the good work.
identifying varieties, especially those dealing in
recutting of designs. We should continue to be a forum - James R. Dollar
of education and research. Let's focus in on something # F-149
I noticed years ago and is blatantly obvious on page 114
of the text. Notice the position of the date relative
to the tip of the Indian's bust. On S2 the one and tip The October issue of Longacre's Ledger was
are almost even; on S3 the one is in advance of the tip; excellent. I liked the grading proposal, I whole
and on S4 the one is far right of the tip. heartily agree.
Anyone who has a large number of any date will - Dave Welsh
notice this variance. We need to establish a standard # F-214
measurement gradient. I am certain that many more
varieties will emerge and identification of the existing
types will be made on lower grade pieces even if the I talked to Rick Snow the other day regarding his
characteristics don't show. Happy searching grading descriptions of circulated Indian head cents as
they appeared in the most recent Ledger. Rick suggested
- Sheldon Freed that I write to you with my proposed changes so that
# F-190 other interested peov1e could comment. The suggested
changes were:
I just wanted to jot down a few things in regard G-4 Maximum for grade. Some dentic1es on the rim show
to Volume II Number IV of the Ledger. I felt that Mr. on the best side.
Crogan's grading definitions were extremely ambiguous.
Nowhere does he mention the word 'LIBERTY' in his VG-8 (cid:1) Maximum for grade. The location of one letter of
gradings, and just what exactly is "moderate wear"? LIBERTY is not clearly defined.
I thought Rick's article on grading was much F-12(cid:1) Minimum for grade. The locations of all letters
better, but I had a few complaints about that also. of LIBERTY are clearly defined. Some letters may
There is a world of difference between the pictures for not be distinct, being mere lumps.
a "good" specimen and a "very good" specimen. In
addition to this, the pictures for the "fine", "very I suggested several other changes for the higher
fine", and "extremely fine" coins are terrible. If I grades but we got into the problem of strike. However,
had a coin resembling the "extremely fine" picture, I for the sake of precision, it should be possible to
would call it "very good"! I also feel that the clearly describe VF and XF grades by going to a split
proposed qualifications for an MS60 cent are a bit too system. In other words, a weakly struck Indian may not
4(cid:1) LoNGACRE's LEDGER 5
JOURNAL(cid:1) OF THE FLYING EAGLE AND INDIAN CENT COLLECTORS SOCIETY
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR (CoDt.) Hopefully, ANACS will adopt these descriptions that
are being proposed when they have been improved and
exist in XF-45 because it was not struck with full approved, and use them in their next edition of the
diamond detail. Is there some reason \"hy this can't be grading standards.
noted as a separated description for weakly struck
coins? - Carl Greve
# F-444
My intent in writing to you is because I feel it
is very desirable to precisely define circulated grades.
Although precision grading reigns at the uncirculated I wanted to take a minute to thank you and Mr.
levels, it fails to do so in the lower grades. The Slaughter who donated the tape to the club. I found it
reason for this is because there had developed such very interesting and although it didn't answer all my
large price differentials in uncirculated grades that questions it was helpful.
11 precise grades are necessary to define the pricing
structure that exists. After being away from the hobby since my childhood
I find things have changed quite considerably. The
Precision grading in the lower grades has been collectors today are much more knowledgeable. We didn't
largely neglected because of the lack of a large price study coins to the extent they do today. We didn't have
advance from one grade to the next. However, the access to all the literature they do now so it seems.
grading of circulated coins is so unnecessarily vague I find it much more exciting now than I did in my
that pricing abuse is possible. younger days. I haven't put my finger on it yet but the
challenge seems greater today. I know a lot of coins
Many dealers push the grades of circulated Indian are harder to find.
cents enough to increase the price beyond what the coin
is really worth. This is possible because the existing Where did all these Indian Cents go? I remember
ANACS and Photograde descriptions are woefully going to the local sh~p as a kid and you could get about
inadequate and cannot prevent it from happening. ANACS any date you wanted at any given time. It's amazing.
says that VF-30 LIBERTY is "sharp," XF-40 LIBERTY is I mainly collected Lincolns and Buffaloes then as about
"bold," and XF-45 LIBERTY is "very plain". The all I could afford but I always liked the Indian Cent.
distinctions between these grades are meaningless I guess it's just the kid in me coming out in myoId age
because the language is imprecise. Who can convincingly but I enjoy it more now than I did then. My son and I
argue about the differences between sharp, bold and very are always going to shows, auctions and hunting coins.
plain? I think my wife thinks I went off the deep end spending
so much money on pennies. Well guy I've probably burnt
Rick Snow is on the right track in trying to your ears with the small talk, so I'll just say take
meaningfully describe the difference between the lower care and good hunting.
grades in precise language that is understandable to
anyone. Dissemination of this knowledge can only help - Gary Thomas
dealers and collectors alike in the long run. If # F-501
precise grading criteria were available, a collector may
still buy an overgraded coin, but will no longer have
the valid excuse that it was impossible to understand
the existing grading descriptions!
6 UlNGACRE ' S LEDGER J OlJRl'lAL OF THE FLYING EAGLE AND I NOlAN CENT COLLECTORS SOCIETY 7
~
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Variety and error coins are seemingly endless.
Let's stop the attempt to match snowflakes; and end the
IN RESPONSE TO REQUESTS BY SOME OF OUR MEMBERS, WE HAVE INTRODUCED quest for diversity. I'd like to complete a F.E. &IND.
THIS NEW ,EATURE - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. QUESTIONS WILL BE PRINTED IN RD. collection.
ONE ISSUE, WI"'q RESPONSES SOLICITED FROM OTHER MEMBERS TO BE PRINTED IN
THE FOLLOWING ISSUE. ANy MEMBER WHO HAS A PARTICULAR QUESTION ABOUT &r!: - Renrik Remkes
ASPECT OF FLYING EAGLE AND INDIAN CENTS ARE ENCOURAGED TO SUBMIT THEM TO: # F-212
EDITOR A "complete set" is what you define it to be. For
LoNGACRE I S LEDGER some this may simply be a complete "date set", others
P.O. Box 291(cid:1) prefer to include mintmark varieties, and for this
JARP.ETTSVILLE, MD 21084(cid:1) series the most generally accepted definition of a
"complete set" includes the large and small letter
varieties of 1858, the copper-nickel and bronze variety
of 1864, and the 1864 with L variety - a total of 58
The request from Vicken Yegparian for information
coins.
and a picture of an 1892 DDO Indian Cent that was noted
in THE CHERRYPICKERS' GUIDE can not be. I am all but
For others, they may simply enjoy the search for
certain the coin referred to is the 1891 DDO featured error varieties. Some errors are rather prominent, such
in our first Ledger. I sent the material to J. T. just as the 1873 Closed 3 Doubled Die Obverse Die 1, and are
before his book went to press. There was only time to quite interesting to see. Other errors are considered
get a notation in the book and I believe an error was to be extremely rare and are sought after for that very
made by using the date 1892 for 1891. If you speak with
reason. I had addressed this issue of a "complete set"
J. T., you might bring this up. He might not be aware
in the first issue of the Ledger, and I intend to
that an error was made. In fact it wouldn't be a bad
address this issue of error varieties in a later article
idea to mention the fact in the Ledger after discussing of mine entitled: "Why Collect Varieties". As Editor,
it with J. T.. More than one of our members are however, I will maintain a balanced approach on this
probably searching for an 1892 DDO where none exist.
subject.
- Joe Haney
I suppose the 1856 is included because it is the
# F-194 first year of issue of the Flying Eagle cent and would
be part of the "date set". Besides, it is a rare coin
with such eminence who wouldn't want to own one,
What is a "complete set"? Mint error coins should
not be included. Should they?
My personal opinion is that the 1869/9 should not
be part of a "regular" complete set, but is actually
Why is the 1856 pattern issue included?
part of a much larger "variety" set. As to the
continuing controversy, see my article enti tIed "The
What's the latest news on the controversial 1869/8,
F.IND.ERSfH Report" in this issue.
or was it l869/9? Should a questionable coin remain
part of a "complete set"? - Larry R. Steve
# F-2
8 LoNGACRE 1 S LEDGER JOURNAL OF THE FLYING EAGLE AND INDIAN CENT COLLECTORS SOCIETY 9
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS (Cont.)
The reverse has a die crack at 3:15 which splits
half way between denticles and wreath with one running
down to the arrows and the other going into wreath
before splitting again.
I recently received R. Snow's excellent Flying
Eagle and Indian Cent Varieties. I have been unable to
Repunching on the 1 and 8 is light, very noticeable
identify two coins in my collection:
on the 5. If you have any information, please drop me
a line.
1858 5L FE @MS 60 with:
- Jim Harrington
1) Dbl Die Obverse at eagle's bill and lower
# F-143
throat.
2) Low leaves reverse with closed E in ONE.
3) Reverse design turned 1800
1859 @M5 63 CuN with:
ANNOUNCEMENTS
1) Narrow bust.
- The deadline for articles, advertising and other
2) Low date with die line to left of U in
items of interest for the Spring, 1993 issue of
UNITED.
the Ledger is March 15, 1993.
3) 5 Leaf cluster reverse.
4) Dbl die reverse.
5) Closed E in ONE & CENT. IMPORTANT: Please note that all such items to be
published, including classifi-ed' ads, should be
mailed directly to the Editor. If you mail them
Can you tell me if anyone else has similar coins?
to Xan or Rick, ·they might not be forwarded in
time for inclusion. The address is as follows:
- Thomas W. Ramm
# F-182
Editor
Longacre's Ledger
P.O. Box 291
While going through my Indian Cents (and finding
Jarrettsville, MD 21084
several varieties) one has me stumped.
- Please be sure to renew your membership, if you
It is an 1865 fancy 5 with obverse die polish
have not already done so.
extending into the base of the first feather but not the
eye. There is an obverse die crack from the 1 in date
- Vol. 1, Nos. 1 and 2 are out-of-print. Several
to the N in UNITED where it connects the top of the I
members are looking to acquire a copy of each.
T-E. The repunching on the 5 looks like that pictured
Should any member have any duplicate copies,
on page 86 of Rick's book. The repunching on the 1 and
please contact the Editor. We may consider
8 looks like that pictured on page 28 Vol. 2 #2 (L.
reprinting if there is sufficient demand.
Ledger) of the 2 cent piece without the part extending
over the very top of the primary 1 and 8.
10
LoNGACRE I S LEDGER JOURNAL OF THE FLYING EAGLE AND INDIAN CENT COLLECTORS SOCIETY 11
COMMENTS AND CONTROVERSY
marks may be present throughout the design or in
the fields. The general quality is slightly below
Do you believe in the following / What changes
average, but overall the coin is rather
would you make ????
attractive. COPPER COINS will retain parts of its
original color.
MS-60 (cid:1) Unattractive, dull, or washed out mint luster may
mark this grade. There may be many large and/or
MS -64 (cid:1) Full average luster for the type is necessary.
ugly contact marks or damage spots, BUT absolutely
Several small contact marks, in groups, as well
no trace of wear. There could be heavy
as one or two heavy marks may be present. One or
concentrations of hairlines, and/or unattractive
two small patches of hairlines may show under
large areas of scuff marks. Rim nicks may be
magnification. Noticeable scuff marks might be
present. Eye Appeal is very poor for an
seen throughout the design or in the field.
Uncirculated Coin. COPPER COINS may be dark,
Average overall quality with a pleasing eye
dull, and spotted with no traces of luster.
appeal. COPPER COINS will retain parts of its
original color.
MS-6l(cid:1) Mint Luster may be diminished or noticeable
impaired, and the surface may have clusters of
MS-65 (cid:1) Shows attractive average quality of luster for the
large or small contact marks throughout.
type. A few small scattered contact marks OR two
Hairlines can be very noticeable. Scuff marks may
larger marks, may be present, AND one or two small
show as unattractive patches on large areas or on
patches of hairlines may show under
maj or features. Small rim nicks may show, and the
magnifications. Average all phases of quality
quality may be noticeable poor. Eye appeal is
with a very pleasing eye appeal. COPPER COINS may
quite unattractive. COPPER COINS will generally
be slightly dull but show original color.
dark and possible spotted.
MS -66 (cid:1) Must have above average quality full original mint
MS-62 (cid:1) An impaired or dull luster may be evident.
luster, with no more than two or three noticeable
Clusters of small marks are seen throughout with
contact marks. A few very light hair lines may
a few large marks or nicks in the prime focal
show under magnification. There may be one or two
areas. Hairlines may be very noticeable. Scuff
very light scuffmarks showing on frosted surfaces,
marks may appear in patches on large areas or on
or in the field. The eye appeal must be above
major features. Small rim nicks may show. The
average and overall eye appeal is very pleasing.
quality may be noticeably poor and eye appeal
COPPER COINS must have full original color and
quite unattractive. COPPER COINS will be
tone.
generally dark and possibly spotted or dotted.
MS-67 Has full original luster for date and mint. May
MS-63 (cid:1) Mint Luster may be slightly impaired. Numerous
have three or four very small contact marks and
small contact marks and a few scattered heavy
one (1) more noticeable but non-detracting mark.
marks may be seen. Small hairlines are visible
One comparable coins, one or two small single
without magnification. Several detracting scuff
hairlines may show under magnification, OR, on or
12(cid:1)
LoNGACRE'S LEDGER JOURNAL(cid:1) OF THE FLYING EAGLE AND INDIAN CENT COLLECTORS SOCIETY 13
GRADING OPINION FOR
CIRCULATED BRONZE INDIAN CENTS
two partially hidden scuff marks may be present.
by Larry R. St~
The eye appeal must be exceptional. COPPER COINS
have(cid:1) lustrous original color.
The topic of grading Indian cents addressed within
MS-68(cid:1) Attractive full original luster for date and mint, the Ledger has generated a good deal of interest from
with no more than four (4) light scattered contact our members. Tom Crogan, who initiated the project, is
marks. No hairlines or scuff marks show. continuing his survey request as to what your opinion
Exceptional eye appeal. COPPER COINS must have is for each grade.
lustrous original color.
I thought that I would present my opinions for the
MS-69(cid:1) Must have attractive full luster for the date and circulated bronze Indian cents (which I had forwarded
mint, with no more than two small non-detracting to Tom). The items highlighted in bold type are, in my
contact marks. Absolutely no hairlines or scuff opinion, critical areas to examine. My opinions are
marks can be seen. Attractive with exceptional just that - my opinions - however, they ~re presented
eye appeal. COPPER COINS must be bright with full here to give you some idea as to the kind of
original color &blazing Luster. descriptions you should give. Once the proj ect is
completed, we should be able to develop a comprehensive
MS-70(cid:1) The Perfect Coin. consensuS as to what each grade entails.
All the Best Complete the enclosed survey form (along with some
of the earlier forms) if you have not already done so,
H. (cid:1) G. Tom Crogan and return them to Tom.
# F-42
AG-3 Obv: Rims merged into fields; legend partially
merged; head outlined; date readable
Rev: Rims merged into fields; top of shield
partially merged; wreath outlined
DAVE'S G-4 Obv: Rims outlined but flat; legend fully
readable
D.C.W. COLLECTION
Rev: Rims outlined but flat; fully outlined
(trusted name in numismatics)
"THE COLLECTORS "FRIEND" shield
I BUY-SELL-TRADE Flying Eagles and Indian Cents.
LARGE FREE pricellst. Very strong buyer.
When it comes to high grades Or Ex. Rare Varieties. see me.(cid:2) G-6 Obv:(cid:1) Full rim, denticles start to appear; eye,
15 days return priVilege. Strict grading a "must".(cid:2) ear, mouth and top edge of headband start
ANA LM4078, FUN-CONECA(cid:2)
to appear
P.O. Box 1711 • Ramona, CA 92065
Rev:(cid:1) Full rim; vertical lines in shield start to
1-800-346-6718 (anytime) • Visa-Mastercard
appear
14(cid:1) LoNGACRE'S LEDGER 15
JOURNAL(cid:1) OF THE FLYING EAGLE AND INDIAN CENT COLLECTORS SOCIETY
VG-8 Obv: Eye, ear, mouth and top edge of headband
VF-30 Obv: LIBERTY is sharp but flat; top diamond and
complete; at least three letters in LIBERTY;
third diamond from top start to show; beads
bottoms of feather quills show
completely outlined; tips of feathers flat;
Rev: Mid leaves, arrow tip, and center part of
lower curl shows more detail
bow show some outline; vertical lines in
Rev: Veins in leaves complete; horizontal lines
shield nearly complete
complete but weak; some details may show on
arrow feathers
VG-lO Obv: LIBERTY nearly complete, usually "ERT"
partially visible; curl in front and below
XF-40 Obv: Ribbon completely outlined, two and one-half
ear show outline
diamonds show; beads show some separation
Rev: Arrow tips completely outlined; vertical
but may be flat; feathers complete (except
lines complete, horizontal lines in shield
tips of first three); hair above ear and
may start to appear
lower curl flat
Rev: Vertical lines sharp, horizontal lines
complete but flat; tips of leaves flat
F-12 Obv: Bottom edge of headband starts to appear at
ends; LIBERTY complete but weak, usually
"ERT"; feather quills show halfway up with
XF-45(cid:1) Obv: At least three and one-half diamonds show;
some detail
beads show separation; feathers complete but
Rev: Outlines of leaves complete but weak on
first three tips may be weak; hair above ear
edges, incused veins on bottom leaves
and lower curl flat
visible; arrow shafts complete
Rev: Horizontal lines sharp; top of ribbon and
edges of leaves flat; arrow feathers show
some detail
F-15 Obv: Bottom edge of headband nearly complete;
LIBERTY completely readable without
Traces(cid:1) of luster must show.
difficulty; ribbon shows weak outline
Rev: Outline of leaves complete; horizontal lines
should now start to appear; ribbon shows
AU-50 Obv: Four diamonds show -or- feather tips
weak outline
complete; beads completely separate; slight
wear on hair above ear and lower curl
Rev: Slight wear on top of ribbon and edges of
VF-20 Obv: Bottom edge of headband complete; ribbon
leaves
outlined; beads in necklace outlined;
feather quills show three-quarters way up
with detail; lower curl to right of ribbon
AU-55 (cid:1) Obv: Four diamonds show AND feather tips
shows some detail
complete; just a trace of wear on hair above
Rev: Veins in leaves should show; ribbon
ear and lower curl
completely outlined; horizontal lines should
Rev: Just a trace of wear on top of ribbon and
show at both ends
edges of leaves
One-half to three-quarters luster must show
on both sides.
16
LoNGACRE'S LEDGER 17
JOURNAL(cid:1) OF THE FLYING(cid:1) EAGLE AND INDIAN CENT COLLECTORS SOCIETY
