Table Of ContentHOUSE OF LORDS SESSION 1998-99
2nd REPORT
SELECT COMMITTEE ON
THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITIES
EC REGULATION OF GENETIC
MODIFICATION IN AGRICULTURE
EVIDENCE
Ordered to be printed 15 December 1998
LONDON: THE STATIONERY OFFICE
£2930
HE Paper 11-1
HOUSE OF LORDS SESSION 1998-99
2nd REPORT
~ SELECT COMMITTEE ON
THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITIES
EC REGULATION OF GENETIC
MODIFICATION IN AGRICULTURE
EVIDENCE |
Ordered to be printed 15 December 1998
LONDON: THE STATIONERY OFFICE
£29.30
HL Paper 11-II
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CONTENTS
Page
ORAL AND WRITTEN EVIDENCE
Professor John Beringer and Professor Derek Burke
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Consumers’ Association
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Green Alliance
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National Farmers Union of England and Wales
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Monsanto Services International S.A./N. V.
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United States Department of Agriculture
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United Kingdom Government Officials
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Professor Mark Williamson
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4
Food and Drink Federation
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United Biscuits (UK) Limited
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Rt Hon Michael Meacher MP, Minister for the Environment, Department of the Environment,
Transport and the Regions and Mr Jeffrey Rooker MP, Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture,
Fisheries and Food
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Professor Philip James and Dr Andrew Chesson
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Professor Janet Bainbridge
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WRITTEN EVIDENCE
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English Nature, Scottish Natural Heritage, Countryside Council for Wales and Joint Nature
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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE
TAKEN BEFORE THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITIES COMMITTEE (SUB-COMMITTEE D)
WEDNESDAY 13 MAY 1998
Present:
Gallacher, L. Rathcavan, L.
Gisborough, L. Reay, L. (Chairman)
Grantchester, L. Redesdale, L.
Jopling, L. Wade of Chorlton, L.
Moran, L. Willoughby de Broke, L.
Examination of witnesses
PROFESSOR JOHN BERINGER, Dean of Science, University of Bristol and Chairman of the Advisory Committee on
Releases into the Environment, called in and examined.
Chairman pollen to other crops. So the basic system is to look at
the possible harm that could arise from a release; to
1. Good morning, Professor Beringer. Thank you
look at the way it is being managed to ensure that harm
very much for coming to give evidence to us. As this
does not occur. If it does not look as if it will be safe,
is the first public session of this enquiry I should like
we ask for more information or a strengthening of the
to precede my remarks on the subject by declaring a
management. If we were to believe that someone was
farming interest, largely as a grassland farmer, but I
not competent to manage the risk, then we would
might conceivably one day have an interest in
certainly prevent it happening. There have been two
genetically modified crops although I am not aware of
cases where we have not given approval. One was for
it today. Could I perhaps ask you, Professor Beringer,
a non-indigenous insect and the other was for a
to introduce yourself and explain the role that you play
genetically modified insect, where we just did not see
in the regulation of genetic modification in agriculture
that the applicant was going to be able to overcome
(Professor Beringer) Good morning, my Lord
the problems.
Chairman. I am the Dean of Science at the University
of Bristol. I have been Chairman of the Advisory
Committee on Releases into the Environment and the Lord Moran
Committees that preceded it for about 11 years now.
3. Are the possible risks that you referred to in the
My involvement in this area started about 15 years
public domain? Are they known?
ago, when I tried to interest the Ministry of Agriculture
in setting up some form of system to look at the release A. The possible risks would not be in detail in the
public domain. What happens is that the application to
of genetically modified organisms; so I have been
involved right from the very beginning before things make a release is in the public domain. If you ferret
were even released. I have also worked during this around hard enough you will find all of these. What
you will not find is our full discussion where we try
time, on a consultancy basis and otherwise, with the
to draw out of the application from our own
European Commission, the OECD, the UN, the USDA
and various countries around the world in developing experience, what we believe the true risks are, relative
to those that are proposed. There is no mechanism for
thoughts about regulations and guidelines. My actual
all of that discussion to be in the public domain.
role, I believe, is to ensure that the best quality advice
is provided to make assessments of the risks of
releasing genetically modified organisms; and also that
Lord Rathcavan
the Department of the Environment, Transport and the
Regions provides good quality advice and guidelines 4. How do you physically manage and control
to people who wish to make releases, so they prepare these risks, Professor Beringer? What staff do you
what they are going to do sensibly. have available and how often do they carry out site
Chairman] Thank you. Lord Gallacher. visits?
A. The situation is that the Health and Safety
Executive takes the responsibility for the Department.
Lord Gallacher
It has inspectors who visit sites to ensure that
2. Professor Beringer, the Sub-Committee was experiments are conducted as they should be. Not all
told that no field trial experiment notification has ever sites are visited in one year. The tendency is to ensure
been turned down. Could you explain the procedure that people who are doing something new, or are new
which ensures minimal risk, but which appears to to us, are visited to ensure that they are competent. I
accept every application to release a modified crop. have to say that of all the releases we have approved
A. We assess the probability that harm will arise to date, there are none for which there has been any
from a release. Always you can control the harm that form of serious concern for environmental harm. So
will arise by the way you manage a release. If you there has not had to be very intensive supervision to
fence an animal in you can prevent it straying. If you make sure that serious damage would not occur. It is
stop crops from forming flowers they cannot transfer conceivable that crops will be made in the future to
2 EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE
13 May 1998] PROFESSOR JOHN BERINGER [Continued
[Lord Rathcavan Contd]
carry genes that produce pharmaceutically active applications which may come in the future which
products, which would be a great value in medicine would cause that application to be turned down. I am
but which must definitely not enter the food chain. We thinking of a similar one to the pharmaceutical one
would then be much more in a position of requiring a which you mentioned earlier.
very efficient system to ensure that those were A. Idid not say that the pharmaceutical one would
managed properly, but we have not had that need to be turned down. I said that I thought this is a
date. development which could be very valuable but these
crops would have to be kept very separate from the
food chain. What we would wish to turn down would
Lord Willoughby de Broke
be the introduction of, let us say, the introduction of
5. There was a report in last week’s Guardian— peanut protein gene into wheat or some other crop that
this is not field trial experiments, I agree—but about a could enter the food chain, and people would eat food
large-scale organic vegetable grower who was then with a very well-known, very serious alleren. I
concerned that the pollen from close-by genetically can find no possible excuse for wanting to make a
modified maize may contaminate his own crops. Do release of that nature. However, if there was some
you have a view on the risk of that? Is that a real scientific reason why that needed to be done for a
risk which should be properly quantified and growers proper understanding of science, I think we could
warned about, or is that a newspaper scare story? come to an agreement with a very high degree of very
A. It is a very interesting story, if it is the same stringent management so that this could be accepted.
one as I know about which is in Devon, where the But it would be very, very hard to approve. We are
organic farm is about 500 metres from a variety trial going to have difficulties in terms of what is coming
for seed registration. with crops such as frost tolerant potatoes, where these
potatoes will become a greater problem in following
6. That is right.
crops than potatoes already are. After a mild winter,
A. My feeling about this is that what we are going
existing potato crops can cause severe weed problems
to be looking at here is a very, very low frequency
in following crops. It is usually frost that controls the
with which pollen from the genetically modified maize
problem. So I can see this will be a difficulty but I
will enter the organic maize. This means that a few
think the agronomic benefits will be higher than the
kernels out of all the cobs produced may contain the
agronomic disadvantages of increased weediness. We
gene from the genetically modified maize. The
would need to work that one through and understand
situation is that the kernel you actually eat is produced
properly what might be other environmental
by the plant growing in the field. It does not contain
implications. It is very difficult, as you are seeing, to
any of the gene products from the pollen which has
identify things that we could not possibly allow.
come from the genetically modified maize.’ So all that
can be consumed is derived from the original parent
but will have an extra gene that it did not have before. Lord Gisborough
Therefore, the risks of any harm to people are
8. Could you say to what extent (if at all) diesel
absolutely negligible. I recognise that there are
rape could cross-fertilise with the edible rape as one
concerns that if people are growing organically,
is inedible.
so-called pure food, they do not want it to be
A. That very much depends on which way the bees
contaminated with something they do not like. Of
are flying; how much pollen is available and how close
course, the situation is that anyone growing maize,
the adjacent crop is. The frequency of cross-pollination
genetically modified or not, that maize is transferring
could be really quite high. If you were saving seed and
genes which are not in the organic maize, so it is
resowing it, you would have a significant proportion—
always contaminated by any adjacent maize. It is the
maybe 10 per cent at a high level—in your following
nature of the gene that is derived from the genetically
crop. In order to give approval for any genetically
modified product, which is the cause of the problem,
modified crop to produce higher levels of oil that could
but as far as I am concerned is not a cause for harm.
be used as a diesel substitute, that would have to be
taken into consideration. But the oil which is produced
Lord Jopling from rape to use as a diesel substitute is oil that we eat
anyway so it is not a nutritional threat.
7. Before I begin I should, like the Chairman,
declare an interest as a farmer. I am also a member of
the National Farmers’ Union. You gave us two Lord Jopling
examples of where applications have been turned
down, and you gave us one hypothetical example 9. Professor Beringer, ACRE tells us that it works
where in the future you could foresee an application on a precautionary basis, by giving advice to Ministers
being turned down. Could you speculate a little further on the conditions which should be attached to a
and tell us what are the general headings of where you consent. Could you tell us what ACRE does to ensure
could imagine there being reservations about either of that those lessons which are learnt from field trials, are
those applications which are now in the pipeline, or used by ACRE and other bodies in assessing further
aS AEaiE asi iD OE chai ahs2 R ayt skb eeen implications from either the same applicant, as an
' Professor Beringer qualifies this by adding that the embryo and earlier one, or new applicants.
the endosperm will contain some products made by genes derived A. Yes, of course, I can. However, I think the
from the male parent. difficulty in answer to this question is that nearly all
