Ammunition and Reloading

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1. 37mm Reloading... (5 replies)
2. What to call this besides just an idea (6 replies)
3. Unknown Projectile (15 replies)
4. correct amount of primer and powder (9 replies)
5. Hypothetically how can someone with limited tools make ammunition from scratch? (36 replies)
6. .22 Rimfire "Different" Ammo? (10 replies)
7. Rifled Bullet (4 replies)
8. Ammunition in Australia (26 replies)
9. Smallest exploding ammunation (13 replies)
10. The powder in BlankGun Ammo?? (3 replies)
11. Armor piercing bullets? (9 replies)
12. Softloads, downloads, mouse sneezes, etc. - Quiet gunshots (27 replies)
13. Mercury bullets? (55 replies)
14. kitchen sink reloading (3 replies)
15. Homeload tests. (7 replies)
16. Reloading 26.5mm (15 replies)
17. silenced ammo (17 replies)
18. Interesting Shotgun Ammo and Effects (89 replies)
19. Thermite Bullets (8 replies)
20. The Improvised Munitions Handbook, and a ftp question (4 replies)
21. Improvised Ammo ? I must be mad. - Archive File (15 replies)
22. .50 caliber shells? - Archive File (0 replies)
23. Does this work? (flechettes) - Archive File (16 replies)
24. OTC Tungsten bullets (10 replies)
25. copper coating bullets - Archive File (0 replies)
26. hollow 12gauge slugs and homemade sabots - Archive File (0 replies)
27. special 12gauge bullets - Archive File (0 replies)
28. New rimfire ammo - Archive File (2 replies)
29. caseless ammunition (12 replies)
30. Modification of bullets to penetrate body Armor (169 replies)
31. Light Gas Bullet (27 replies)
32. Stacked Bullets (5 replies)
33. range activated exploding projectile (21 replies)
34. 5.56 Flechette? (21 replies)
35. .17 HRM ? I want one (20 replies)
36. New Rimfire! So Expensive! (17 replies)
37. Discontinued JHP Ammo (10 replies)
38. .410 shotgun shells (11 replies)
39. exploding rifle slugs? (22 replies)
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The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Military Science > Ammunition and Reloading > range activated exploding projectile
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Ctrl_C June 20th, 2002, 05:09 PM
Most of you have seen my spudgun by now. It has a 2" barrel and is pneumatic. Spuds are great and do a lot of damage but I'm looking for something better.
Imagine a smaller that golf ball sized moldable explosive, surrounded by tiny nails to make a spiny little grenade smaller than 2". Now imagine it has some very small
electronics in it also: an accelerometer, an adjustable timer, and a small power supply. The whole thing is encased in paper mache' to make a nice mortar-like ball that fits the
barrel perfectly. Now the idea is that you take the range of your target with a range finder, plug it into some simple projectile motion equations, and figure out how long the
shell will take to get to the target. You open a little flap or something on the shell, set the timer, and fire. The countdown starts at the end of positive acceleration (when it
leaves the barrel). As the shell travels down range, it counts down it's preprogrammed time and at the end, triggers a switch or relay to connect a circut with the ignitor,
causing it to explode.
This idea could be improved upon with an electronic range finder. Instead of manually entering the time, perhaps the shell has metal contacts that touch other contacts on the
inside of the barrel. The range finder relays the range into a microchip which calculates the time it takes for the shell to reach the target. This time is relayed from the chip to
the shell via the contacts.
I am going to begin testing this sometime this summer, starting out with a simple fused design just to test its worth. If it proves effective, I will try the electronic version.
As always, any suggestions?
Madog555 June 20th, 2002, 05:39 PM
thats a little complicated and expensive to just make it go boom. it would be a marvel though. i would probaly have a long string that pulls a pin out as it travels away to
activate a simple imact initiation device. you could use a thin wire that is coiled on the back for compactness. it would be a good precaution to make sure all the shrapnel is on
the front and sides. so it doesnt face u if it goes off ass the pin is pulled.
military greanades are activated by spinning in flight.
<small>[ June 20, 2002, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: Madog555 ]</small>
xoo1246 June 20th, 2002, 05:42 PM
If you want it to explode on your target I would use impact detonators. You would have to have very consistent V0 on your spudgun/ cosistent design of your grenades and
500 other factors to make it work. I think it's overcomplicating stuff. I would rather spend my time developing safe(r) impact detonators and doing experiments, measurements
and calculations on angle vs range (vs wind). But don't let me stop you.
VX June 20th, 2002, 05:49 PM
That’s a great idea. :)
However I was once going to make something similar, The circuit was a simple 555 monostable circuit. It was set to turn on and start counting when a reed switch was
triggered as the projectile left the barrel of the cannon (a very powerful magnet was to be attached to the outside of the end of the barrel). The voltage was kept 'turned on'
by use of a thyrister.
There were some issues with it though, the barrel must not be made of a magnetic material, and the magnet must be removed when loading the projectile.
I think that the main advantage to this design as opposed to yours is its simplicity. Also it is very cheap, the electronics for each projectile probably not costing more than £2. I
think that a PP3 (9 Volt) battery is the most cost effective power source, and because of this the projectile would probable by elongated like a proper mortar shell. Finns could
also be added for extra stability.
This design does not however take into consideration the speed of the projectile, distance from source or any other factor. This would be a big problem if you had a misfire.
On a simpler note, how about just using the same design as an 'airbomb' (firework) and using the lift charge to light a section of slow burning composition and have this
leading into a primary charge (AP, HMTD etc) which in turn could be used to detonate a secondary explosive..... This is much less complex, but is a tries and tested method.
Ctrl_C June 20th, 2002, 06:13 PM
There's actually a funny story related to this. The original idea started out with putting a mortar type firework into the barrel and shooting it. My friend was going to light it,
quickly load it, and I was going to throw the valve. Well, apparently this cheap ass chinese fuse burns a LOT faster than my stuff. He lit it and was trying to shove it down the
barrel and 3 secs later: BANG!.
I knew the base charge had went off and the main was about to go off so I instinctivly ran into the nearby garage. Unfortunately, my friend didn't have such an advanced
understanding of how fireworks work as I did. He just stood there, unhurt but shocked, and then the entire area for about 40 yards instantly burned brightly and created thick
thick smoke as the burning stars whizzed past him and onto my porch, yard, picinic tables etc.
A-BOMB June 21st, 2002, 12:21 AM
Ctrl_C why not just use a radio transmitter and reciver setup. The transmitter has a adjustable range, the reciever is hooked up to a small relay, once the reciver is out of
range of the transmitter the relay closes and boom.
CyclonitePyro June 21st, 2002, 12:24 AM
This reminds me of the OICW, that gay looking futuristic gun, wouldn't mind on though. Look here <a href="http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/pages/military/
fwframeset.html" target="_blank">http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/pages/military/fwframeset.html</a>
That's is depressing, I bet the friendly UN Peacekeepers will be sporting these when they come to put me and others who think alike in FEMA centers. :mad:
Sounds like a fun project, it would be a little OTT for me but if you can do it then more power to ya.
pyromaniac_guy June 21st, 2002, 01:22 AM
a bomb....
althougha radio transmitter is a good idea, i dont like the idea of making the relay trip when the transmitter is out of range.... murphys law states that if you do something like
that, you are much more likely to drop the transmitter, or have it's battery die after arming the projectile.... still a good idea though.... lets say you wanted to set off a remote
charge.. you could laungh it with your spud gun, then set it off any time you want in the future, so long as you still have battery life left in the transmitter. i owuld caution
against useing off the shelf transmitters though, as it would suck to have a 'round' go off in your pocket because someone drove by while pressing their garage door opener
PYRO500 June 21st, 2002, 04:29 AM
I remember seeing a while back a baseball that you could throw and it would start and stop a timer when it was thrown/caught, the internal timer would calculate th speed (if
it was thrown at the right distance) I was unable to find a patent on the specific device but it seemed simple enough and was about 5$.
pyromaniac_guy June 21st, 2002, 04:57 AM
the only problem with the use of a simple timer is that it makes no distinction between a misfire and a proper shot, ie if your projectile just pops out of the barrel, you arent
going to ahve alot of time to duck and cover before things get very ugly. Thats one feature of the OP's idea that i kinda like, an accelerometer. this way you can build the thing
with a fail safe... an accelerometer tell the time to start counting down, but a solid state relay that carries the initiation signal is not activated unless the accelerometer sees x
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g's....
pyromaniac_guy June 21st, 2002, 05:09 AM
also, if you had the funds and wanted to get REALLY devious....
you could use a small gps reciver.. they are making um to fit in a few cubic cm of volume these days.... see:http://em.tycoelectronics.com/micro/gpsnews.stm
you could make a large caliber spud gun, and sew up into a stuffed animal a reciver, antenna, battery pack, and explosive of choice... once the accelerometer tells the thing it
ahs been fired an internal microcontoller polls the gps, and decided whent he thing has been picked up.... when that happens, BOOM! (the use of a gps removes the chance of
a false fire due to the normal routes of failure for most motion mechanisms....) or if you wanted to get really selective, you could fire the thing onto the property of some
person.. when they pick up the stuffed critter to take it inside, or to the garbage can, boom! such a device would be very expensive, and very complex, but it sure does bring
up the possibility of a very target specific weapon
nbk2000 June 23rd, 2002, 09:49 AM
The South African army had an interesting idea they used for their cluster bomblets.
The bomblets were round balls covered with rubber that would bounce off the ground, back up into the air, before exploding. A simple impact switch would activate a .2 second
delay that caused it to explode between 10 and 40 feet above the enemies heads.
And we recently got into the store these shotglasses that light up when they're slammed down on the tabletop. A very small spring is supported on one end, the other end free
to swing above a contact plate. When hit with enough force against a stationary object, the free end of the spring bends down and touches the contact, completing the circuit.
This seems like an easily adapted impact switch. Just use a sufficiently stiff spring with some sort of support to prevent premature activation, like an ejecting pin that runs
down the spring, and you're set.
Anthony Privratsky July 21st, 2002, 02:06 PM
A simple but effective hand grenade could be made to explode on impact no matter how it lands. Its a little of the subject of a mortar/rocket but effective. A person could just
surround a HE with an impact sensitive explosive like ap, murcury fulminate or other. These could be made from a sphere of any kind.. prefferably a tennis ball. They wouldnt
be hard to make and would be really fun to throw around.
<small>[ July 21, 2002, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Anthony Privratsky ]</small>
kingspaz July 21st, 2002, 05:38 PM
well you just go and do some testing then <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ....thats a good idea in principle but a shitty idea in reality. having an HE
with primary sorrounding it is lethal. one drop and its all over. you need somthing you can activate with the removal of a pin or somthing so when the pins in its not going to go
off nomatter what.
Anthony July 21st, 2002, 09:02 PM
Not to mention it'd be rather unreliable. The primaries you mentioned aren't *that* sensitive.
john_smith July 22nd, 2002, 02:33 AM
Talking about impact detonators, the simple primary based ones with no safeties are more threat to you than to whoever you plan to use em on, and military style grenade
igniters are impossible to replicate without a completely equipped machine shop. However, what about building an electric one using a car alarm shock sensor? It would be easy
to incorporate a simple delay activating the sensor/firing circuit about 0.5 sec or so after releasing the safety, and it would probably blow up quite reliably.
Edit: replace the alarm sensor with fuel cutoff shock sensor.
<small>[ July 22, 2002, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: john_smith ]</small>
Ctrl_C October 2nd, 2002, 09:54 PM
I'm bringing this back up because I finished rebuilding my spudgun today. While I eventually plan on doing a range activated thing, I'm going to start off with an impact
sensitive bullet for it. I need opinions on several things:
What type of explosive? Remember it has to withstand some pretty substantial acceleration so low sensitivity is a must.
What type of casing? It must fit in a 2" pvc pipe. I originally planned on using a mini nerf football (very aerodynamic w/ fins) that supposedly fits very well into a 2" pipe but
they are discontinued. I was thinking possibly plaster. Lightweight, easy to cast, however, If it is shaped like a large bullet (I figure about 1' long total with a rounded front
end), then the side walls around the explosive may not withstand the force of the massive air pressure wave hitting it.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">
|--------x---------\
| x \
| EEEEEEEEEEEEE==P---
| x /
|________x_________/</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">This is the basic idea, explosive cast in middle, with a small tube
extending to the tip (also filled with explosive) and a primer at the end of the tube and a metal rod just sticking out of the bullet to transfer impact to the primer. Weak points
of concern where x's are.
Remember, I'm trying to avoid metal as this round has to be as lightweight as possible.
<small>[ October 02, 2002, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: Ctrl_C ]</small>
Eliteforum October 2nd, 2002, 10:54 PM
Might be a bit extream, but an idea.
First make a mould of your chosen design, then with a say plaster mould, fill it with melted plastic, then with another solid mould but about 5mm gap all the way around the
other mould. push it in, and the excess plastic is pushed out.
Don't know how good this would work, or if it would work at all. But you could try it on a smaller scale perhaps?
Asger October 4th, 2002, 07:31 AM
About using AP in projectiles. I searched for this regarding small arms but it is not very common.
Though AP is somewhat sensitive, it is stil insensitive and stable enough to be filled into a cal.22 hollowpoint and making a projectile that explodes on impact. I tried it many
many times working perfectly 99,9% of the time. Both from pistol and rifle.
If pressed firmly it will withstand a high acceleration without detonating. So if it is pressed good (take care) it should launch from your spudgun like a charm. But take really
good care. You would obviously be dealing with larger amounts than that of a .22 drilled with a 2,2 mm drill.
Well my use in the .22 is very different from yours so I just mention this so you can compare my experiences to what you need yourself.
Take care.
(I really like to tell more about my experiences on this becaus ihave a lot, if any is interested. But I don't know where would be most appropriate.)
Asger October 4th, 2002, 08:00 AM
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About your timing device. If you want something simpler than microprocessors for a start - then how about this :
In your grenade you have an electric flashbulb
from a one-use flashcube) - they are great for ignighting AP, black powder or bulletpowder. They are instant and require little power (unfortunately they are also static
sensitive so take care).
Then you have a capacitor of moderate size (eg. 50V 100uF) They should be very small today and cheap.
And finally a simple circuit that detects the voltage on the capacitor. Once this voltage drops below say 10V the circuit dumps the rest of the charge into the flashbulb.´
You then put the grenade in your cannon. Charge it through some contacts to a voltage depending on the range from a table you made of voltages vs. timing vs. range. And
finally arm it since the circuit will try to detonate as long as you are below said 10 V. You must take care of that little flaw.
You vill need a variable powersupply and a digital voltmeter.
Once you fire, the powersupply to the grenade is obviously cut and the capacitor is discharging from some rangedependant value towards the 10 V or whatever limit you set.
You just need enough leftover charge to reliably set off the flashbulb.
The main thing is that you do some testing so you can reproduce timings down to few hundreds of a second. Actually I think this could be a problem. Mostly because the value
of the resistor that discharges the cap. is somewhat temprature dependant.
<small>[ October 04, 2002, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Asger ]</small>
BoB- October 8th, 2002, 06:02 PM
The problem with cast projectile casings is that if the explosive/detonator core is not perfectly centered then the flight can be unstable, as the round would be unbalanced. If
you were able to center the core, then this would be ideal, you could cast the shrapnel into the casing, and/or use stronger casings, like bondo, or cement.
You could even attach some fins to some dowel and cast that into the rear of the round.
I've thought about using one of those home-manufactured spudgun darts like on spudtech.com, this would give you more room for electronics and added shrapnel. You could
even use shaped charges. My guess would be that 1 1/4" endcaps would fit in 2" PVC.
<small>[ October 08, 2002, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: BoB- ]</small>
Asger October 23rd, 2002, 09:59 AM
One can buy some quite cheap gadgets that has some LEDs that flash when said gadget is in the vicinity of a transmitting cellphone. Now I'm sure they can easily be modified
to set of a flashbulb instead - so if you imagine you put this device into your spud-grenade and fire it towards an active (communication going on) cellphone, the grenade
should detonate when it comes close enough.
Now I don't know the range wherein this device responds neither if it only responds to the phone while it is ringing or also while a conversation is going on. But I don't suppose
such a piece of cheap electronics can tell the difference.
I will buy one soon and see what potential it has. Maybe one of you guys already have one.
But you get the picture : lure target into a deserted area, make a call to a cellphone carried by target (from a stationary phone ofcourse to avoid premature detonation) and
fire the grenade towards target while target ansvers phone. For better successrate, add impact detonator to grenade too.
<small>[ October 23, 2002, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: Asger ]</small>
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The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Military Science > Ammunition and Reloading > New Rimfire! So Expensive!
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HMTD Factory November 30th, 2001, 09:16 AM
Remember the .17/22LR from Aguila I was talking about?
Hornady(which founded the idea of .17 necked
rimfires) caught the idea again and worked out a .17/22mag version.
It is said to have better ballistics than .22mag. Personally I stick with .223Rem or .22PPC for varmint shoot. Now there isn't
any gun that I know of that is built for .17/22.
Picture of the new Hornady .17/22WMR with A-MAX match bullets.
http://www.acusport.com/web/Hornady17HMR-11-12.asp
AR-15 Man December 1st, 2001, 08:50 PM
That sucks. Sounds just like some scheme to get money. I don't see anything so special to make this worth the price. Oh yea
have you seen the .458 SOCOM upper for the AR-15? Now that has some use.
HMTD Factory December 2nd, 2001, 05:45 AM
.458 SOCOM? I havn't really read about it,
is it a subsonic round for silencers? It
shouldn't feel good being hit by a number
that starts with a 4.
In my first thought the .17 rimfires
wouldn't be of much use. Still there are
people who got tired of "rimfire = .22" and
want to see a bore size their cleaning rod
won't fit in.
The size of the .17HMR did ring some bell,
so I tried to go through my magazines see if
I can compare it with the new H&K PDW round
but I can't find the magazine, maybe later
I'll post it up.
nbk2000 December 2nd, 2001, 05:59 AM
Airgun pellets are .177 in size.
I've also seen mentioned on another gun forum that there are barrels that'll squeeze a .22 down to .2, .17, and even .15.
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EventHorizon December 2nd, 2001, 08:13 AM
Some creative remanufacturing would yeild a round that should penetrate a BPV nicely, and at some distance too.
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HMTD Factory December 2nd, 2001, 09:12 AM
.17HMR - factory AMAX bullets + mean bullets = 4.5mm H&K PDW rounds = dead cops = yelping in pain with rough prison sex
That's what I thought, except that the last item isn't appealing.
HMTD Factory December 2nd, 2001, 10:16 AM
There!
H&K 4.6mm PDW
actual bullet dia = 4.65mm
bullet weight = 25 grains
bullet material : copper-plated steel, tumble
-inducing asymmetrical tip
performance in designated firearm :
muzzle velocity = just under 2400 fps
muzzle energy = 312 ft/lbs
barrel : polygonal rifling for better gas seal with the use of steel projectiles.
.17HMR
actual bullet dia = .172"
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bullet weight = 25 grains (A-MAX)
bullet material : copper-jacketed, lead core,
polymer tipped (A-MAX)
performance in velocity barrel :
muzzle velocity = 2550 fps
muzzle energy = you calculate(350 ft-lb?)
Since the PDW round is fired in a 7" barrel
while the .17 is fired in a velocity barrel,
despite the data shows, these two rounds are
on par with each other.
In my opinion the .17 sure can be made into
a PDW round but with minor disadvantages :
Inherent accuracy : the PDW round has a
stubbier body column, thus the PDW round will
have more consistent powder burning.(No, you
won't care if you are to shoot full-auto.)
Action length\weight : The PDW round being
shorter, benefits from reduced length/weight
in magazine, action, and chamber.(But extra
5 onces = exercise)
Remanufacture problem : Don't forget the PDW
is a rimless cartridge while the .17HMR is a
rimfire. Kinetic bullet pullers can't work
on a rimfire, there must be money invested in
at least a reloading press, special shell
holder(can't grip the rim), collet-type
bullet puller , and a custom seater die.
(which costs nothing for a reloader that has
a workshop.)
Cost : .17HMR is expensive, unless Hornady is
willing to supply you primed cases.(which is
so much cheaper)
You be the judge for if it's worth it to
improvise a full-auto .17HMR PDW.
AR-15 Man December 2nd, 2001, 10:51 AM
Well first the .458 SOCOM is a round designed for a special made upper for an AR-15. I am pretty sure it is sub sonic. But the
thing is the round is so massive. 10 are held in a standard AR-15 30 rounder. Now that is impressive. www.tromix.com (http://
www.tromix.com) is the site for the uppers. As for using the .17 rimfire (or whatever it is caled) for a PDW why not use the
7.62x25mm Tokarov round. It can penetrate handgun resistant vests. Or why not just make hi velocity 9mm bullets with .380
light weight bullets in IMI black tip subgun ammo. Now it will have short distance but might be able to pentrate
HMTD Factory December 2nd, 2001, 10:52 AM
I heard somewhere that a guy in around 19
centries built a barrel that squeezes a lead
bullet smaller in dia, hoping to maintain
high pressure in the barrel to get better
velocity, but failed cuz there's too much
energy wasted in squeezing the lead bullet,
after the bullet exited the barrel, the
bullet is too long to stablize.
Did some search on the net, this forum is
doing some talk regarding .17 rimfires.
http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000268.html
So Volquartsen and Aguila is making .17/22LR.
Volquartsen makes barrels for Ruger 10/22 and
Aguila loads the ammo. (Probably a conversion
barrel only, since the new ammo is the same
length as old .22LR, action and magazine
stays the same.)
On the other hand Hornady is making .17/22WMR (.17HMR). Both Marlin and Ruger will offer
guns in the Hornady caliber.(The news is in a
current issue gun magazine)
According to a member of that forum, some
private ammo maker is already making .17HMR
for sale (there's your source for primed
cases.)
HMTD Factory December 2nd, 2001, 11:08 AM
If memory is right, 7.62Toka, 9mm, 4.6mm HK,
5.7FN all have muzzle energy above 300ft-lb.
What the Toka and 9 don't have are velocity
and thin case body : high velocity bullets ride on flat trajectories. With flatter trajectory, the shooter can engage longer
distance without worring about bullet drop.
Thin case body is good for short magazine.
It takes a longer magazine to fit 30 fatter
rounds. MP5(9mm) use 30rd mag but UMP(.45) use only 25rd mag --there's one example.
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Toka and 9 sure can penetrate body armor if
properly doped, lethal at bank-robbing or
thug-plinking distances.
[This message has been edited by HMTD Factory (edited 12-02-2001).]
AR-15 Man December 2nd, 2001, 05:12 PM
Well I am pretty sure the subgun 7.62 Toka will go thru body armor on it's own. But the rounds that do won't work in a Tokarov
pistol without destorying it only the CZ 25 subgun or CZ-52 (someone correct me on the subguns I think that is the wrong
number). As for 9mm yea you do lose quite a bit of range. Now here is an idea. The 10mm at first was to hot for the FBI so
someone created the 40 Smith and Wesson (but with thinner brass so it will Kaboom in Glocks sometimes). Well later
someone took the 40 S&W and made the .357 Sig which is a bottle necked round. Well why not bottle neck 10mm and use the
.357 Sig bullet. Then modify a MAC-10 to use the new round. If someone had the equipment I could see the project going
under $1000 but I mean it would be worth it. Also I hear the MP-5s in 10mm break the rollers a lot anyone know if that is true.
nbk2000 December 2nd, 2001, 07:51 PM
The .224 BOZ uses a 5.56mm bullet in a necked down 10mm casing.
http://www.civil-defence.org/products/ballistics/boz224/boz224.html
They modified a Glock 20 (10mm) to fire these bullets.
http://www.scs.wsu.edu/~pbourque/images/guns/glockboz.jpg
It'll penetrate 1.4mm titanium plate + 30 layers of kevlar, BP glass, car bodies, etc.
Here's a copy-cat loading that'll work in the CZ-52:
http://www.owlnet.com/quality/223%20Timbs.htm
Case specs for the .224BOZ are here:
http://members.aol.com/varmintline/Ballistics/22-10MMs.GIF
Small, fast, and hard = Penetration of JBT BA.
If you know the enemy is armed with such weapons (.224), don't even bother wearing a vest since it won't protect you anyways,
and will weigh you down.
Let THEM wear the heavy vests while you dance around them, shooting them with YOUR CZ-52 copy-cat. :)
Remember;
Light + Fast = Life
Slow + Heavy = Death
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"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."
Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2ooo) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited 12-02-2001).]
HMTD Factory December 2nd, 2001, 07:53 PM
My range warden once said something about his
10mm auto Glock --"Shoots like a rifle!"
The 10 is more ferocius than 9, but I doubt
it will break H&K rollers--since the same
roller is used in HK G3 types to delay 308
blowback.
HMTD Factory December 2nd, 2001, 08:22 PM
Most agencies are willing to pay and use
necked down versions of existing caliber,
this proved very economical since there' will
only be a barrel change.
From the case capacity, 224BOZ will have more
punch than 5.7FN or 4.6HK, but will recoil
more as well. They said there's a PDW
project involving a short AR-15 chambered in
.224BOZ, new toys for you, AR-15 Man.
I also heard the Sweden had necked down 9mm
to their favorite 6.5mm, said there will be
a barrel available for Glock. Since I like
6.5mm as much as a Swedish does, I might
just want one.
AR-15 Man December 3rd, 2001, 03:54 PM
Now you see why I have high praise of the CZ-52. Cheaper and just as good. I had heard of the .224 BOZ but never head
more than the fastest real handgun round (sorry Encores in 300 WIN Mag don't count). NBK you are right sometimes body
armor is just plain USELESS. Other times it is worth its weigth in gold. That is why I TRY to always have a rifle with me but I
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know that is impossible and I feel handguns are just tools to get you to your rifle. Now what I am wondering is why someone
would chamber an AR down to 10mm just to use the 223 round again? I mean recoil isn't that bad for .223. But I guess some
REMF cry baby needs one. I have heard of the Swiss bottle necked 9mm. That is great. Maybe it will make a lot of military's
change. I know that the G3 uses roller but the same rollers as the MP5? I just don't see how that works but if I ever get the
chance to compare I will. I knew the trigger parts were the same and a few others. Quite a few of the cops in my area use
10mm. I don't see why. But then again my family uses .357s.
SofaKing December 6th, 2001, 02:34 PM
Now if the Glock 18C came in 10mm, that would be interesting. But wait it does, becaue there's a patent for doing that. (there's
a pdf floating around)
On another note there's a conversion for the ar-15 in 50AE, the downside is that there's no high cap mags. I just think people
like making conversions for the ar-15.
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AR-15 Man December 6th, 2001, 06:22 PM
Hahahaha a glock 18 in 10mm? If you didn't have a stock or foward grip your third round would be right between your eyes. Oh
yea about the AR in 50 AE why would you want Hi Cap mags? Also a 40 round AR-15 mag will hold 15 50 AEs. But even if they
had 30 50 AEs it would be hitting he ground. And with a round like that you follow up shots are slow so a mag change every 10-
15 shots isn't that big of a deal.
HMTD Factory December 13th, 2001, 04:37 AM
Guns for .17 HMR have come out...
A break action from New England Firearm
Two bolt guns from Marlin
No semi-autos yet...
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