Table Of Content[ Whitney Philip Morris wall drawings by Byron Kim ]
May7-July16, 1999
WhitneyMuseumofAmericanArtatPhilipMorris
TheWhitneyMuseumofAmericanArtatPhilipMorris
isfundedbyPhilipMorrisCompaniesInc.
Thisbrochureaccompaniestheexhibition "WhitneyPhilipMorris,"
organizedbyEugenieTsai,seniorcuratorforthePermanentCollection,
WhitneyMuseumofAmericanArt.
©1999WhitneyMuseumofAmericanArt
945MadisonAvenueat75thStreet
NewYork, NY 10021
www.whitney.org
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AConversationinthePeriphery 1:Doyouthinkwe'reherebecauseByrondoesn'twanttotakeresponsibility
forwhatissaidaboutwhathe'sdoing?
Twomonthsbeforetheopeningof"WhitneyPhilip
Morris,"threefriendsofByronKimmettotalk 2:1thinkhewantstobecontrarian,andtheriskisexcitingforhim.
abouthiswork.Atthetimethisconversationtook
place,Kimwasdecidingwhathewantedtodowith 3: Idon'tseeitthatwayatall. Heseemstobeextremelynervousaboutit.
hisexhibition.Tovaryingdegrees,eachofthethree
participants—anartist,apoet,andanartsadminis- 1:Don'tyouthinkthatthisispartofhispersonality?I'velistenedtohimexplainthis
trator—wasfamiliarwiththeprocessKimwas projecttwice,andbothtimeshekeptdancingaroundwhathewasgoingtodo. Thesecond
goingthroughtoarriveatasolution,buttheyknew timeIwantedtokillhim.Thepersonhewastalkingtowastryingtogetatwhathewas
onlythathewasthinkingofdirtyingthegallery's tryingtosay,andByronjustwouldnotgiveittohim. Creatively,thingsarealways
wallswithdirtandgrimeofNewYorkCity.Kim happeningintheperiphery,andartistsdothisfunnydancetogetatwhatthey'retryingto
providedthegroupwithseveralquotations(mostly do,butwenevergostraightforit.There'ssomethingaboutthewayByronpresentshimself
fromotherartists'writings)andsomeofhisown thatfitsinwiththat.That'sthewaythisconversationissetup—wedon'treallyknowwhat
journalentries,whichwerecentraltohisdecisions he'sgoingtodo,butwe'retryingtotalkaboutit. It'salittlebitabouthimandalsoabout
regardingtheshow.Kimwasnotpresent,butthe ourrelationshiptohim.
resultingconversationbecameanintegralpartof
theprocessheusedtocreatethisexhibition. 2:Soinawayhereallyisincontrol, becausehe'sgettingustodothis.
1:Byron'sworkdoesthattoyou,too.Hegivesyoualotofspace,whichisreallygenerous,
butalsoreallyintimidating. Andthat'showIimaginethisinstallationmightbe.Therewill
beaverygentlegesturethatyoucanexpoundon,buttherestissortofleftuptoyou.
2:AlotofpeoplegetannoyedwithByron'swork. Sometimesexplanationisneeded
orwouldbehelpful, andthisshowwillbetheoppos—ite. Byronisquestioningall
thetime,andhe'smakingtheviewerquestionhim andhedoubtshimself,and
hequestionshimself,andsothepeoplelookingathisworkstarttoseeagigantic
ballofquestions.
1:Thequestioniswhetherhe'sdupingthemorbeinggenerous. Whenhespoketomy
friendandmeaboutthework,hewouldgetusreallyexcited,andthenhewouldn'tsay
anything. Hewouldworkusallup,andthennotdeliverthepunchline. Iguessthat's
thecharm—he'screatingaspaceinwhichtheviewercanexist. Maybeheleavestoomuch
space.It'slikethepoweroftheworkisbeingrestrained.ThemysteryofByron'swork,
thebeauty,isverysubtle—ittakestime.Theviewerwhodoesn'ttakethetimeisgoingto
missit. It'sjustgoingtoseemlame.
3:Whywoulditseemlame?
BecauseIthinkByron'sworkisquiet, Ithinkit'sslow.Ithinkit'ssensitive.Ialsothink
sincrediblysubtle.Allofthattakesacertainsensitivityintheviewer.
2:ByrondidtheRoche'sPointdrawingsfromIreland(1998),andtheywereunder-
statedascanbeandabsolutelybea—utiful. Iresisted, butotherssaidoverandover
againthattheyweresorefreshing thattheyfeltrenewedbylookingatthem.
TheRoche'sPointdrawingslookedlikeKennethNolandstripesinthemat,butwhen
youliftedthemats, theywereincrediblyorganic. Youcouldfeelthehorizonline.
Spiritualthingsarenotexplainable, youcan'tarticulatethem. Ofcourse, it'sa
dreamofsomeartiststospeaktheunspeakable, tobeabletotouchthatpartin
allofusthatisaspiritualpart. That'sthegreatpowerofart, thatnoneofuscan
actuallysayhowyoudothatorhowyoutouchsomeonethatway. Butitisadrive,
andyoudotrytomakethespiritworld. Thosecornymoviesthattrytomakea
—
pictureofGod theycan'tdoit. Whentheygettothepartsaboutheaven, you
knowthey'rewondering, "Howarewegoingtopaintheaven?" Theyreallycan't.
MaybeMichelangelodiditintheSistineChapel's "touch,"butyoucan'tdothat
again. Soitisagreatopportunityincontemporaryarttocreatethatkindofspace
ortoevokeafeelingthattranscends, andIthinkByron'sworkgoesthatway. His
daffodilmural(\Wandered LonelyasaCloud, 1997)isbroad, it'sbig, andatthe
sametimeit'ssmall, likepoetry. Hewantstodoboththings, behumble, butbig,
andtodobothisveryhard. It'sagoodthingtospendyourlifetimetryingtoachieve
thatfineline. It'saboutme, butthenthere'stheus. Howdoyoubridgethat?
LouwrienWijers:Whatwasthethingthatfirstcaughtyou 1: It'spartofthatwholeegothingthatByronistryingtobattlewith. Hegaveusthat
whenyousawtheworkofJosephBeuys? quotationwhereAndyWarholtalksaboutthegrayinJosephBeuys'work,andWarholsays
AndyWarhol:Well,Ilikeanythingthat'ssortofgreyand... thatgrayisspiritual.That'ssuchaflakypainter'scomment.Grayisgray. It'swhatyoudo
nottoomuchcolourinit. withgraythatmakesitonethingoranother. Iwastryingtothinkaboutwhatgrayis.
LouwrienWijers:Whathesaidaboutyourworkwasthat InByron'sjournalentrieswherehetalksaboutthisproject, hetalksaboutemptiness.I
ithasspirituality. gavehimthisquotationfromaBuddhistthinker: "Seeemptiness,havecompassion."Ihave
AndyWarhol:Ohwell...whatdoesgreyhave... noideawhatitmeans,butIthinkitmeanssomethingveryimportant.Ifyoucouldbring
BobColacello: Ithinkgreyismorespiritual. yourselftothat,somethingmightreallyunfoldforyou.Ultimately,emptinessisabout
AndyWarhol:Yes,greyismorespiritual... interconnectionandimpermanence.That'sthelackoftangibilityinByron'swork.But
LouwrienWijers:Iwouldsaysotoo,butIfounditsucha whenyouacknowledgethisimpermanence,youalsorealizethatitconnectsusall.
wonderfulremarkofhimtosay: "Andy'sworkhasafine
radiation.Hehasaspirituality." Howdoyoufeelthatyourself? 2: Thereisalevelofanonymityinpeople'slivesinthiscity. Especiallywith42nd
AndyWarhol:Well,Ilikehisdaughter. Street. Eventhoughpeoplearealwaysstrivingforexcellencehere, they'restillso
— anonymous. Maybethey'renotanonymousforaminute, butthentheyareagain.
LouwrienWijers,fromWritingasSculpture:1978-1987,1996 Thatbringsmetothedirt. Wedon'treallyknowwhatisgoingtohappenwhen
Byronmakesthispiece, buthetalksaboutdirtandaboutNewYork.
4/5
1:WhattotallygrossedmeoutwhenIcametoNewYorkwasthatthereisthislayer,this
surface,overeverything. Whenyoucleanyourapartment, ithasakindofoilytextureto
it. Istartedthinkingaboutsurface;Iwasthinkingaboutpainting. AndthenByronwas
tellingmeaboutalloftheseideas,ofsplashinganddripping. We'llseewhathedoes—
atfirstIthoughtthathemightcoverthesurfaceofthegalleryblack,butsincethenI've
pictureditasamonochromegray.
2:Really?Ipictureditwithalotoftexture. Ithought, oh, thesurfaceisgoingto
modulate. Byronhasthisgreatabilitytogobackandtalktomodernistpainting, talk
toaRothko. Somehow, hisworkalwaysmakesmethinkofsomeonewhoistrying
tostandbehindhimself.MyfavoritepieceofhisistheClyffordStillpiecehedidat
theNeubergerMuseum(EvenStoneIsNotPermanent 7995;. Itwasgigantic, two
30-foot-longwalls, butitstillstoodbehinditself. Wow!Itwassopassive, butalso
aggressive,anditwasabsolutelybeautiful. Byronthinkstoomuch, andthosewall
piecesdon'tlethimdothat. Inevitably,hegetsintothepainterly, thepushandpull
ofthepaint.
1: Whichisreallydifferentthanthedirtymarkonthewallthatistherebychance,orthe
waydirtcollectsincracks.
2: Yes, butyoucouldusethosetomakesomethingelse.
1:Byronkeepssaying"Itriedthis,butitwastoobeautiful. AndthenItriedthis."This
wholenotionabouttheWhitneyprojectworkingandnotworking,thiswhole"no-idea"
thing.Forawhile,Byronwasinterestedinthefactthathecouldn'tgetanidea,andthathe
wouldn'tforcehimselftocomeupwithoneuntilthelastsecond.Or,howhemightnothave
hisnameonthepiece,letitbehardlyanything.
3:You'retalkingaboutByron'sworkasifheknowsjustwhathe'sdoing.Youtalkaboutthe
"no-idea" ideaasifit'sjustanotheroneofhisconcepts. ButlisteningtoByrontalkaboutthis
projectandaboutdoingthisconversation, Ithinkthatonafundamentallevelhedoesn'tknow
whathe'sdoing.
2: Whatdoyoumeanhedoesn'tknowwhathe'sdoing?
3:Well,hementionedinoneofhisjournalentriesthatheconsideredquittingtheproject.
6/7
1:Thecreativeprocessisallaboutdoubtandnotknowingwhatyou'redoing.Theminute
youstopdoubting,youbecomeareallybadartist. WeusethephraseConceptualartistand
assumethatthereisafullyformedideathatgetstranslatedintoanobject—butthatmakes
theworstart.Becausethenwhymaketheobjectatall?Ourlanguageisvisual,sothe
meaninghastocomeoutofthemaking.
InthattalkwithLisa[Sigal],Byronwasbringingbackalloftheserejectedideas: some-
whereintheunconsciousyouhavetheidea,it'salreadythere,youjusthaven'tputitinto
formyet. Inhisjournal,it'sasthoughtheminuteanideabecomesviable, hethrowsitout
andstartsagainfromscratch. That'sprobablyawayforhimtopushhimself;it'snotabout
justtryingtomakeagoodpiece.Butthestruggleshouldn'tmakeyouthinkthathedoesn't
knowwhathe'sdoing.
2:HealsogaveusthatGerhardRichterquotationthatsaysgray "issuitedlikeno
othercolortoillustrate'nothing.'" Wantingtoillustratenothingisverycontrarian.
It'sperfectforByron.
3:Theideaofillustratingnothingisonething, buttosaythatgrayissuitedlikenoothercolor
—
toillustratenothing that'satotallymeaninglessstatement.
